Smash - Series Discussion

[dramamama611]

I'm pretty sure most people hate Ellis.

[MrMidwest]

I thought this was interesting in relation to last week's episode. Jane Fonda talks about attending Actor's Studio classes with Marilyn:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QT0gLczsxAQ

[Gaveston2]

Very little book progress has been made, just songs and scenes staged and worked on haphazardly, and we are supposed to think it is ready for its first mounting?

Great point. Especially since one of the ongoing plots is that their star is rewriting the show at every rehearsal. Maybe Rebecca is actually the show doctor! (Didn't we see Julia quitting in one of the previews? Perhaps she realizes that Rebecca is the better writer.)

[anthony95401]

Ha! Rebecca is the show doctor! Hey, her suggestions are crazy, but at least someone is trying to doctor the thing! Actually, Rebecca is a bright spot for me lately. Uma is bringing the fun at least.

[BroomstickBoy]

My theory, from what I've seen of the show and previews (I thought of this before I remember Rebecca's "peanut" thing :

Dev proposes to Karen. She turns him down. He has his a-hole "after all I've done for you" moment, they part. She quits the show to show her love for him. She catches him with his co-worker, they call it quits. She's out of luck.

Ivy catches Derek with Rebecca, turns out Rebecca came on to Derek and he fires her. Ivy gets Marilyn. She pops some pills out of nerves and has a reaction and has the emergency "SHE CAN'T BREATHE", therefore being unable to go on.

And just when you think Lil Miss Iowa is out of luck, she's MARILYN!

If it seems highly unlikely, look at how this godawful show is written. Just a thought.

[sephyr]

I did find it strange that tech is next week. There hasn't been much progression and I'm still kind of confused to what the show is exactly about??? I know it's about Marilyn but what is it trying to really say?

That said I did enjoy the Bollywood number! Also Karen's pop number with the band was amazing, she sounded so clear and beautiful. Ivy's number was really nice too!

Glad they found Leo and I thought he did well in the scene when he came back. He just needs to learn how to let his emotions go. He contains himself a little too much in emotional scenes.

Ellis worked my nerves yet again and I can't believe Ivy trusts him. He's a snake in the grass lol I'm waiting on him to get what's coming.

All in all, it was a nice episode. Rebecca is definitely bringing the drama and I don't hate her. She's kind of awesome lol I can't wait to see how things turn out next episode.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

I really like this show.

[EricMontreal22]

You don't say...

sephyr, I don't think Ivy trusts Elis exactly, it's more that she knows she can use him...

[kyl3fong2]

Gossip Girl's Josh Safran will be the new showrunner for "SMASH" season two.

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/smash-gossip-girl-josh-safran-showrunner-315983

[TxTwoStep]

Kalimba, thanks for the connection. It is very hard to resist putting a "hierarchy" on the meta-journalism around the show...that's human nature that some of us prefer one writer's take over another's. i have ordered both Shukert previous books to see if her tone jibes with how i view the world, as her take on SMASH certainly does....she makes fun of what she cherishes, as do i.

i currently don't watch much of GOSSIP GIRL, but others i trust do, and i think that showrunner makes good sense. That being said, even for a new series...the pedigrees of the WILL&GRACE/CHICAGO THE MOVIE producers, Speilberg, Rebeck with TV and Broadway experience, and Michael Meyer didn't exactly result in a coherent vision. Much like musical theatre, sometimes the collaborative effort is the hardest part...perhaps particularly when the disparate elements are all from such strong artists (SPIDERMAN TURN OFF THE DARK, anyone?)

[EricMontreal22]

Well that's a... weird fit. I guess, going by his only credit which is Gossip Girl, we are gonna go for full on soap? Hrmm

That article says one change made between it being a cable show for Showtime and now on network tv was the decision about who gets the role of Marilyn... Wonder why.

TxTwoStep, I think it's also the kind of show that would have been served better on cable where usually one or two voices are allowed to have the most say, unlike network TV which has so much interference about every detail.

[TxTwoStep]

i agree, EricMontreal. The lit agent i'm doing the courtship dance with right now reps a lot of TV screenwriting clients (not my genre at all, though i have two sitcom pitches that get a bit of buzz) and he was just saying yesterday that the focus=group and marketing component of a network show is so much stronger than cable...so he pushes voices toward cable if he can. Somehow, however, despite networks no longer being really "broadcast" (maybe because of premium channel bundling) still mainly network shows reach the broad culture. i track in Entertainment Weekly what draws comments and it's still larger networks in most basic cable packages and not the smaller boutique houses or channels. OY.

[abitoftap]

The Bollywood number didn't sound very Bollywood to me..more like a 1980s boy band song.

[StageManager2]

Agreed, abitoftap. This is how it should be done:


Hindi Sad Diamonds

[yankeefan7]

sephyr - IMO - think the show is basically the story of Marilyn Monroe and how she could not handle fame. Forget the song name but remember the song was about Marilyn and Joe DiMaggio wishing they could be a normal couple (Mr. & Mrs. Smith).

[Bettyboy72]

I thought the Bollywood number blew.

Also, the Marliyn show has to be a mess. Has one actress played the role from the beginning of the show through the end. I don't think theres been one run-thru with one actress in the role.

Karen's not here-Ivy you play it. Ivy's not here-Karen you play it. Rebecca wants Karen-you sing it Karen. Karen's upset-you sing it Ivy. In what universe does this fly?


At this point I hate both of these girls and I could care less who gets the stupid part. I feel no tension leading up to who gets the role. I really don't care. I don't feel many viewers are invested in who gets the part.

[JoeKv99]

Smash is a no-win show. If you talk about Dev's Indian heritage and then roll out the Bollywood fantasy, you're beating a dead horse. If you don't and just have his GF have an errant fantasy number in her head, well somehow that's racist. If you show the actual rehearsal process for a musical, well, no one would watch except for those haters who'd bitch how boring that was. When you telescope it down and just focus on the numbers...well, you get my drift.

I do get a kick out of reading how much you guys hate watching it week after week. I still giggle at whoever it was that said the score is unbelievable because the songs all sound alike, which is to say, the songs sound completely different and could never fit into the same show.

[Gaveston2]

Joe, the posts here are no different from conversations behind the scenes when any show doesn't really work: there are dozens of opinions, many of them contradictory. Check out any post-play critique session to see what I mean.

If fixing a broken (or, if you prefer, not-quite-there) show were simple and easy, every show would get fixed. On the contrary, few ever do. (Network reliance on focus groups may well be the culprit.)

But as for outright hatred, I think most of us gave that up pages ago.

As for my response to the Bollywood number, my point was merely that Dev had never had a musical moment before, and the character has been portrayed as entirely Westernized, from his job to his tailored suits. (I did notice one Indian print in the apartment he shares with Karen, so to be fair, let's give the show that much.)

So when a scene comes along that literally shouts "INTRODUCING DEV", setting it in an Indian restaurant and jumping to Bollywood seemed more than a tad ham-handed to me.

But there's no need to light the torches. The villagers aren't storming the castle over this. In fact, it seems to have been a problem for no one but me.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

[Gaveston2]

Oh, Phyllis! You know that when you leave a post blank, I always assume you posted something nasty about me and then decided to delete it. (This is a joke.)

[rjm516]

I'm kind of excited about this show possibly going crazy soapy next season. At least that could be more interesting!
Thanks for posting the Moulin Rouge scene above. It's so amazing.

[SporkGoddess]

I dunno, it didn't sound like traditional Bollywood but there is a lot of modern "pop" Bollywood that it wasn't too far off from sounding like. Of course, usually those Bollywood numbers don't feature people in traditional Indian garb, either.

Bollywood numbers also usually have a more "music video" style with a lot of cutaways. And they also usually have better production values.

I think they should have asked A.R. Rahman to write a song, but maybe he's above Smash.

[TxTwoStep]

for me, (and for the record, i don't "hate Ellis"...he is plot device poorly used and the actor may be doing the best he can...he could become something great next season as in the tradition of other peripherals that come into their own...give us some examples, i'm tired) i enjoy the show because i CAN both love moments and hate them, much like most of the theatre i see. The challenge is always to take the moments that are pure genius, that drove your concept, and bridge the "obligatory scenes" that must fall between them with some visuals or kinetics or good thought...my recent examples being LION KING, WARHORSE, PETER & THE STARCATCHERS, first half of SUNDAY, SWEENEY, WOODS (and for me though i'm likely in the minority, IMAGINARY FRIENDS and SONDHEIM ON SONDHEIM---many would say URINETOWN too, and AVENUE Q and SPELLING BEE are arguable) There is also SPRING AWAKENING and MORMON and NEXT TO NORMAL, each at least as unlikely a source as the Marilyn mythos. However, such work is not easy and the majority of most theatre, on either side of the non-profit/commercial line...needs be risk-adverse.

As to whether BOMBSHELL is a good show or might actually reach B'way, i think its fictional writer has certainly expressed her idea of it a lot, and i think some "concept" shows have started with less and "workshopped" their way to a cohesive vehicle. You can do anything with time and money (well maybe not save TURN OFF THE DARK artistically). one must admit this dream team of producers and writers...they have deep pockets and not much to lose. They got trilogy money and syndication annuities. Their reps are fine, and at least they tried in a famously foolish yet "fabulous invalid" medium.

[TxTwoStep]

oh yeah, DROWSY and GREY GARDENS and god help us MILLIE and MAMMA MIA. BILLY ELLIOT. Even FELA.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

While the show is definitely catering to the Broadway community, it's not just a stereotype that musical theatre performers never shut up and are always singing... it happens.

"I am beautiful, no matter what they say... your words can't bring me down"
If that's not Marilyn Monroe's anthem, I really don't know what is.

but knowing the way these Hollywood scripts are written, I wouldn't be surprised if they fall back on that old stupid scene where McPhee will start off all shaky and timid, and it will look like she's going to blow it, but they give her another chance because they feel sorry for her, so at the last second she rallies and they realize they have in front of them the greatest star of her generation.

Slight worry, won't they have to decide between hilty and McPhee pretty quickly given they are the only two to get called back. if you've promoted the show around that concept i can hope they can really hold the intrest or it's going to go by real fast.

As someone said on the Amazon message board, it's only for "fat chicks and homos." As I represent one of those groups (and I'm not saying which), it certainly wasn't for me.

That being said, this is one of the worst pieces of garbage on television or in any medium. I know for a fact where this script is headed and it is a MESS. But, you all bought it, hook line and sinker.....so, here we go...may the continued debate continue...but you may not have the opportunity as long as you had thought.

You can al continue to theorize, speculate, debate, argue and jump up and down on your worthless soapboxes...but when the proverbial curtain comes down, the ignorance is deafening. Good luck!

Theresa Rebeck is an amazing writer

My main issue is, if Brian is a science teacher, do we never get to hear him sing?

What I liked about last night is that it felt like a TV Show versus the Pilot that felt more like a Mini-series.

messing has a degree in musical theater

About the adoption, couldn't the parents go local & adopt a baby like from NYC? I don't know anything about adoption, but that might've been faster? Does the Chinese part really matter?

of course I will keep watching it to support the bigger goal of Broadway featured in a network show, but for months they advertised "we are not Glee - we are nothing like Glee. Other than a few songs in the show, no other singing".

Phyllis, when most americans begin the adoption process they sadly assume the other country will be very similair to america, or it will be so simple they could get the child immediatly.

Did anyone else find it annoying that one couple or another was kissing every 3 or 4 minutes throughout the show?

But aside from the great voice of Katherine McPhee, this show has nothing to recommend it.

why show us gays in the audience, and i am sure we are in the majority, all this str8 sex...i turn down the sound during these god awful moments and wait patiently for the music to reappear...i thought the duet Mr & Mrs Smith was cute...show me more show...less sex!

They need to recast the Marilyn actresses. McPhee is too boring and Hilty is too butch.

i wonder how many more viewers they lost tonight. This is horrible.

BTW glee did this Adele song way better....... months ago..........

Farewell, Smash. Good luck with the ratings but it'll be Hawaii Five-O or Castle or the 10 o'clock news for me

Not sure if this was already discussed (I'm pretty sure I've read the entire thread) but does anyone else get annoyed by the fact her husband's name is Frank and the son's Leo?

*This gripe is probably more directed at the bullying snarkism that IS the NY Magazine dot com Vulture Pages recaps than a dig towards you. Nah, its probably about you too....get your own cutsie nicknames.

I thought that Eileen's daughter was a terrific guest star and also enjoyed her storyline in the episode.

NBC is the silliest of all networks right now. Changing the creative staff this late in the game is not going to help anything.

There really needs to be a wisecracking character. McPhee should have been written in an Elaine Stritch or Shelley Winters template.

On a side note, I am IN LOVE with GCB!

Ivy is a big, fat pig! All that's missing in that pic above is an apple in her mouth.


ust watched the clip for Monday's episode. PLEASE, PLEASE stop advertising older shows. In the background, is a HUGE marquee for GYPSY that starred B.P. and next to it is a marquee for American Idiot. And if you watch closely you can then see the MEMPHIS marquee....so unless you are not a theater geek (or queen to some), like me,then it would not make a difference...I know that two out of three shows are currently NOT playing on Broadway!!! Advertise current shows...that will sell tickets (hopefully).


Brian D'Arcy James was impeccable.

Kinda ironic that the show wants a star. The Smash tv show itself wouldn't hire unknown actors, either. It hired two name actors to play struggling actors, and hired actual struggling actors for background/chorus work.

So this show is "Sopadish Broadway" instead of soap background. Hmm... I wonder which lady would be the one used to be a boy... wink, wink.

And nice of them to tease Uma for the past two weeks and we get what, one line out of her?

Now that Uma is on the show...doesn't this mean that they will be performing that Bollywood number they mentioned back in February in one of the coming episodes?

The biggest problem with the show IMO is Anjelica Huston as the produce

All I can say is thank you Uma! Finally a character who is a.) likeable and b.) somewhat realistic.


(and if you're the poster called JayinChelsea you will come in page after page and always ask some variation of "Who is the audience for this?")

[EricMontreal22]

Tx2Step--that's a good point, although I don't agree with all of your examples (Sweeney in particular feels like a very economical show for me, all things considered there isn't much I feel I have to sit through to get to the brilliant parts--although when the tooth pulling scene is kept that may count), and I worry about placing Bombshell or Smash in the same league as many of those titles, but... :P

I certainly don't hate Smash, and I only recently realized how even the parts I shake my head at I more or less enjoy--the hour flies by which says something (not sure what, but when watching---to pick on the obvious--Glee, there are moments I genuinely hate even when I enjoy other moments, Smash doesn't have that for me, at least yet).

One comment about the new showrunner (and it's interesting Rebeck will still be writing some scripts--kinda unfortunate as I think her episodes have had the weakest dialogue)--I, like others, assume this means they will up the soap and fantasy element, which could work since the show doesn't do the ernest drama as well anyway. But his only credit is Gossip Girl and he's never been the sole headwriter on it (I believe Schwartz and his partner still oversea the show they created), so like many writers who start on one show and then go on to work or create something completely different, it doesn't mean much one way or the other. Which makes me all the more curious why he was chosen.

Obviously, I agree with you about the cable/network thing. However, while network TV shows to succeed have to appeal to a broader base (which is why it failed pretty miserably when network stations tried to appeal to a Mad Men audience with period dramas this year that still had to be watered down for mass consumption), and I agree broadcast shows obviously still get more comments, etc--I do think cable shows with a fraction of the audience have lately often grabbed the zeitgeist more. I mean Mad Men does not get huge numbers--the dying genre of daytime soaps, which have numbers the networks feel they can't justify, still outperform it. But a TON of people who don't watch it are aware of it--enough that they understand a skit based on it on SNL, etc. So the impact can be seen in different ways